Sunak gently mocks Truss’s claim she was undermined by ‘deep state’
William Wragg (Con), chair of the public administration and constitutional reform committee, goes next.
Q: Are you still committed to cutting the size of the civil service?
Yes, says Sunak. He says he wants to see efficiency savings.
Q: Do you support Lord Maude’s proposal to split the role of cabinet secretary and head of the civil service?
Sunak says he is still considering that report.
Q: What do you think about Liz Truss’s claim that she was undermined by the deep state?
Sunak says that is a matter for her.
Wragg tries again, and again Sunak says that is a matter for her. Wragg asks if Sunak is a member of the deep state, and Sunak replies:
I probably wouldn’t tell you if I was.
This promotes proper laughter.
But it also answers the question, because it does tells us what Sunak thinks about Truss’s “deep state” conspiracy theorising; he is gently mocking it.
Key events
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Con), chair of the committee, ends by asking about strategic thinking in government – a pet subject of his.
Q: Do you support setting up a national school of government of some kind?
Sunak says he is in favour of that proposal.
Jenkin says no other civil service around the world does not have a training centre.
Q: Should this offer training for ministers too?
Sunak says there is a training process for ministers already.
Q: Young people are not engaged in politics. Should parliament have something like a future committee, as they have in Finland, to ask the questions about what the country wil be like in, say, 30 years time.
Sunak says that would be a matter for parliament.
Jenkin says departmental select committees would not exist if Margaret Thatcher had not proposed them in a manifesto.
And that’s the end of the hearing.
I will post a summary soon.
Philip Dunne (Con), chair of the environmental audit committee, is asking the questions now.
Q: Do you agree parliament needs to play a bigger role scrutinising the next carbon budget?
Sunak agrees with the general point. He says last time a carbon budget was passed, it was debated for 17 minutes. That is not right, he says. He says Dunne’s committee has put forward helpful ideas on this.
Q: Defra announced yesterday that sustainable farming incentives would have to increase food production. Does that mean you accept food security is a public good.
Yes, says Sunak.
Sunak gently mocks Truss’s claim she was undermined by ‘deep state’
William Wragg (Con), chair of the public administration and constitutional reform committee, goes next.
Q: Are you still committed to cutting the size of the civil service?
Yes, says Sunak. He says he wants to see efficiency savings.
Q: Do you support Lord Maude’s proposal to split the role of cabinet secretary and head of the civil service?
Sunak says he is still considering that report.
Q: What do you think about Liz Truss’s claim that she was undermined by the deep state?
Sunak says that is a matter for her.
Wragg tries again, and again Sunak says that is a matter for her. Wragg asks if Sunak is a member of the deep state, and Sunak replies:
I probably wouldn’t tell you if I was.
This promotes proper laughter.
But it also answers the question, because it does tells us what Sunak thinks about Truss’s “deep state” conspiracy theorising; he is gently mocking it.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Con), chair of the committee, asks a supplementary.
Q: Are you thinking of putting getting defence spending up to 2.5% of GDP on defence?
Sunak says he does not want to write too much of the manifesto now.
Jenkin says that has made his point (which is that if the government really wanted to put defence spending up by that amount, it would have done so).
Sir Jeremy Quin (Con), chair of the defence committee, goes next.
Q: When will the UK spend 2.5% of national wealth on defence?
Sunak says the government has said it will do that when conditions allow, but it is already on the way. The government is already due to hit 2.3%, he says.
Q: Russia is outgunning Ukraine 5:1 on expenditure on shells. And it is spending 40% of government expenditure on defence. Do you accept that there comes a point where we cannot afford to spend more.
Sunak agrees, but he says the government is spending more.
Munitions are a particular issue, he says. The government has announced plans to reinvigorate supply chains, and to provide more drones. He says his first overseas visit this year was to Ukraine.
Quin says he would like to have heard Sunak be more specific on 2.5%.
Q: How are you going to institutionalise a cross-government effort to get where we need to do get defence into a better place?
Sunak says the announcement yesterday addressed this. This is a proper national endeavour, he says.
Sunak claims that the UK’s approach to dealing with the risk posed by China goes further than what has happened in many other European countries.
He says countries like Germany have not removed Huawei from their phone networks.
Q: The UK is joining the CPTPP [the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans-Pacific Partnership]. If China tries to join, will we block it?
Sunak says it would not be appropriate to say. But CPTPP has very high standards, he says.
Liam Byrne (Lab), chair of the business committee goes next. He asks about TTikT
Q: Will you require ByteDance to give up its holding in TikTok?
Sunak says TikTok is not allowed on government devices. He says he will not comment on individual cases, but the government monitors threats to security, he says.
Q: Do you allow TikTok on your children’s phones?
Sunak says that is no really relevant, and he does not answer.
Sunak says the UN resolution is not asking for an unconditional ceasefire. It calls for the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages.
He says the wording of the resolution was not perfect, from the government’s point of view, but it was close enough to the UK’s position for the government to support it.
Cat Smith (Lab), chair of the petitions committee, goes next.
Q: What is the government doing to support a ceasefire in Gaza?
Sunak says the government was pleased to support the resolution at the UN.
Q: Will you consider arms export licences?
Sunak says the UK has a very robust scheme in place for arms exports.
Q: And are exports to Israel constantly under review?
Yes, says Sunak.
Q: Will you take into account the number of children killed and injured?
Yes, says Sunak. He says he does not want to comment on the specifics, but these are the sort of issues that are kept under review.
Q: Airdrops are the least effective way of delivering aid. What are you doing to get aid in through the Rafah land crossing.
Sunak agrees with the point. The UK is pressing for more land access, he says.
In the meantime, the airdrops will help, he says.
Q: Does what is happening in Gaza count as collective punishment?
Sunak says the UK urges Israel to comply with international law.
He has also asked Benjamin Netanyahu about bringing more aid in through the north, he says.
Q: Do you have an update on the allegatons about UNWRA staff supporting Hamas?
Sunak says the government was appalled by the allegations. Properly functioning, UNWRA has an important role to play. But the government is still considering the results of the inquiry carried out.
Q: Why do you think it will be safe to send LGBT asylum seekers to Rwanda?
Sunak says he is satisfied by the legal protections in place in Rwanda.
Q: If Rwanda is a safe country, how is sending people there a deterrent?
Sunak says because people won’t be able to stay in the UK.
He claims that deterrence has led to the number of people coming to the UK from Albania falling by 90%.
Joanna Cherry (SNP) asks Sunak if he is proud of telling Tory MPs to vote againt the amendment saying people who helped the British forces in Afghanistan should be exempt from deportation to Rwanda.
Sunak objects to the question, saying he resents the way Cherry is framing it in the light of the way MPs are being subject to threats.
Cherry defends the question, and poses it again.
Sunak says the government has other schemes that people can access if they worked for British forces and want to come to the UK.
Sunak says he’s not aware of claim Tory MPs were told compensating infected blood victims would stop tax cuts
Q: Did the whips tell your MPs last December that if you implemented the recommendations on compensation for victims of the infected blood scandal, there would be no money in the budget for tax cuts?
Sunak says that is not something he is aware of. He says the government is committed to paying compensation.
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